I (almost) hate floppin’ the nuts in Omaha
I got into a huge hand with my old professor, Jim McManus, at our home game a few weeks ago where I should have laid down the nuts on the flop. The notion of laying down the best band sounds crazy to hold’em players, but it’s something that you have to be willing to consider in Omaha.
At our home game, we play alternating rounds of $5/$5 no limit hold ‘em and pot-limit Omaha. In a big family pot that had been raised preflop, the board came down 9h 7s 6s. It had checked around to me on the button, which made me feel pretty safe. I bet the pot with my 8 10 straight, hoping to take it down right there, but then Jim reraised the pot.
If ever there was a spot in which the nuts should be folded, this was it. Jim is certainly one of the tighter players in our game, and he rarely bluffs me. I figured that at best, I was playing for a chop, and I didn’t have any redraws. But I couldn’t bring my self to muck my cards, and I called his big bet. He turned over 9 9s As X. The turn brought the four of spades and I lost almost $600 in that one hand. Ouch.
During a much smaller online game recently, I flopped the nuts and again got in trouble. Preflop, I raised from the cut off with Kh Kd Jh 10s with two limpers already in the pot. A player named 1969baby, who had been playing pretty wild, three bet it from the small blind. One limper called, and so did I. The pot contained about $30. The flop came Ah 9h 5h. The small blind took a long time before before acting, which told me that he was deciding whether or not to commit suicide with his set or lower flush. And then, just as I expected, he potted it. The sandwiched guy folded, and I reraised my whole stack. 1969 instacalled, and we were all in with a pot of $180. Of course another ace came on the turn, and 1969 won the pot with aces full of nines. He had three bet me preflop with A99X, and he didn’t have a single heart.
I think I played the second hand right, but maybe I should have come over the top again preflop. Situations like these only occur once in a blue moon when you play hold’em, but it just goes to show that in Omaha, floppin’ the nuts don’t mean jack.
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Comments
Crap, I misread hand #2 . . . ignore the ref. to that hand, there. You get the idea. If heads-up & against an obvious drawing opponent who ain’t going anywhere no matter what you do on flop, maybe let him see the turn, then make him decide.
Well I know how you feel. I play in a home game every Monday night. The game of choice is usually Omaha. Many times I have flopped the nuts and i would say that I get drawn out on 4 out of 5 times. At least thats what it seems like.
Family pots can be the worst in POL. It gives people the ability to raise large amounts once the flop comes out and more often than not they will use that ability. Next thng you know your pieceful home game is costing people their paychekc. I try to stay out of them as much as possible.
here is something interesting I entered your hand information into the Odds caculator on Cardplayer.com
your hand 10 8 X X
his hand 9 9s As X
Flop: 9 6s 7s
the results were:
you: 39.88%
Jim: 60.12%
which makes you the dog….can this be right. After flopping the nuts you are behind?
did i make a mistake?
Yea, that first hand is definitely one where folding the nuts is probably in order. In certain spots — actually, it depends on stack sizes — I will try to wait until the turn before getting it all in with my nuts-vs.-a drawing opponent. E.g., in hand #2, I might consider just calling 1969’s flop raise, and if that turn card doesn’t pair the board then push (since I know I can’t bet him out of the hand on the flop, anyway). Easier said than done sometimes, though.
Tell Jim M. I’ve been enjoying reading through his serialized history of poker — read a bunch of it on the plane trip out to LV (where I’ll be for the whole of the WSOP). And let me recommend it to everyone else — you can find ‘em all in the CP archives. (The articles start in Dec. ‘06.)