The big break through win tonight
Feeling pretty good so I was messing around today with some new concepts. Watched some great video’s on MTT play and feeling a little bold. Playing in the 11$ 20k guarantee tonight…and will be posting my interesting hands here on pokersift.
If you enjoyed this post, please consider to leave a comment or subscribe to the feed and get future articles delivered to your feed reader.
Comments
I think if you check, it’s a transparent play. By re-raising a raiser and a caller, it’s hard to imagine you have anything less than AK. If you simply check behind, it looks too much like you are slowplaying something big, such as a set of queens or kings, maybe AA. The c-bet looks more like a desperate attempt at reclaiming the pot after your pre-flop steal didn’t work. Personally, I like the bet. It’s too bad your opponent only had JJ.
Thanks for the input…tournament is going well. Caught a set of 88 vs a raiser and caller - and felted both of them to 10k.
Picked up a few more K with AK to move into the top 300 - until this hand hit.
I guess I should preface this hand by saying I over played AA UTG, and we discussed playing it a little more passively. Hoping someone would raise me.
So when I got KK I decided to limp…the table had been fairly aggressive and I knew I could count on a raiser.
As it turns out - it was me and the other big stack…lets see how this turned out…would you have called his bet???????????????????
PokerStars Game #15360193507: Tournament #77010174, $10+$1 Hold’em No Limit - Level VII (150/300) - 2008/02/17 - 20:37:31 (ET)
Table ‘77010174 472′ 9-max Seat #9 is the button
Seat 1: bigbamboom (10739 in chips)
Seat 2: Tomikaze (4750 in chips)
Seat 3: #1Rounder420 (13865 in chips)
Seat 4: SmokinPot (8705 in chips)
Seat 5: metrofan2k (11900 in chips)
Seat 6: MarHub (2280 in chips)
Seat 7: rharrison (3785 in chips)
Seat 8: jheidebrecht (19295 in chips)
Seat 9: Hzaher (2660 in chips)
bigbamboom: posts the ante 25
Tomikaze: posts the ante 25
#1Rounder420: posts the ante 25
SmokinPot: posts the ante 25
metrofan2k: posts the ante 25
MarHub: posts the ante 25
rharrison: posts the ante 25
jheidebrecht: posts the ante 25
Hzaher: posts the ante 25
bigbamboom: posts small blind 150
Tomikaze: posts big blind 300
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to bigbamboom A♥ K♠
#1Rounder420: folds
SmokinPot: folds
metrofan2k: raises 600 to 900
MarHub: folds
rharrison: folds
jheidebrecht: folds
Hzaher: folds
bigbamboom: calls 750
Tomikaze: folds
*** FLOP *** T♠ T♥ 8♣
bigbamboom: checks
metrofan2k: bets 1200
bigbamboom: calls 1200
*** TURN *** T♠ T♥ 8♣ A♠
bigbamboom: bets 3000
metrofan2k: folds
bigbamboom collected 4725 from pot
bigbamboom: doesn’t show hand
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 4725 | Rake 0
Board T♠ T♥ 8♣ A♠
Seat 1: bigbamboom (small blind) collected (4725)
Seat 2: Tomikaze (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 3: #1Rounder420 folded before Flop (didn’t bet)
Seat 4: SmokinPot folded before Flop (didn’t bet)
Seat 5: metrofan2k folded on the Turn
Seat 6: MarHub folded before Flop (didn’t bet)
Seat 7: rharrison folded before Flop (didn’t bet)
Seat 8: jheidebrecht folded before Flop (didn’t bet)
Seat 9: Hzaher (button) folded before Flop (didn’t bet)
Opps
Here is the hand I meant to post as the one above was the AK win.
PokerStars Game #15360288390: Tournament #77010174, $10+$1 Hold’em No Limit - Level VII (150/300) - 2008/02/17 - 20:41:47 (ET)
Table ‘77010174 119′ 9-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: gyufa (6003 in chips)
Seat 2: fiore77 (18450 in chips)
Seat 3: Palomino IV (5345 in chips)
Seat 4: sebosapoof (17125 in chips)
Seat 5: turkster1 (20741 in chips)
Seat 6: mimic017 (4700 in chips)
Seat 7: bigbamboom (13239 in chips)
Seat 9: _BBP_ (4980 in chips)
gyufa: posts the ante 25
fiore77: posts the ante 25
Palomino IV: posts the ante 25
sebosapoof: posts the ante 25
turkster1: posts the ante 25
mimic017: posts the ante 25
bigbamboom: posts the ante 25
_BBP_: posts the ante 25
sebosapoof: posts small blind 150
turkster1: posts big blind 300
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to bigbamboom K♠ K♦
gates is connected
mimic017: folds
sebosapoof said, “figure u for better than AJ”
bigbamboom: calls 300
_BBP_: folds
gyufa: folds
fiore77: raises 1200 to 1500
Palomino IV: folds
sebosapoof: folds
turkster1: folds
bigbamboom: calls 1200
*** FLOP *** T♠ 7♠ J♠
bigbamboom: bets 2700
fiore77: raises 14225 to 16925 and is all-in
bigbamboom: calls 9014 and is all-in
*** TURN *** T♠ 7♠ J♠ A♦
*** RIVER *** T♠ 7♠ J♠ A♦ 8♥
*** SHOW DOWN ***
bigbamboom: shows K♠ K♦ (a pair of Kings)
fiore77: shows J♦ J♣ (three of a kind, Jacks)
fiore77 collected 27078 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 27078 | Rake 0
Board T♠ 7♠ J♠ A♦ 8♥
Seat 1: gyufa folded before Flop (didn’t bet)
Seat 2: fiore77 showed J♦ J♣ and won (27078) with three of a kind, Jacks
Seat 3: Palomino IV (button) folded before Flop (didn’t bet)
Seat 4: sebosapoof (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 5: turkster1 (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 6: mimic017 folded before Flop (didn’t bet)
Seat 7: bigbamboom showed K♠ K♦ and lost with a pair of Kings
Seat 9: _BBP_ folded before Flop (didn’t bet)
So let me self analyze since I can’t sleep
1. Don’t love the limp here, its a tricky play. Rather why not raise 3x. I can live the limp in light of the fact it does expose someone who plays back at me as someone with at least AQ, AK or any pair above 77. Limited number of hands can raise to 1500.
2. I don’t mind the call here. I wanted action, I got it. I could have reraised. But then - he probably shoves back considering all plays. In hindsight a reraise would probably have helped me define his hand better.
3. The flop hist T 7 J of spades. I like the bet of of 2700. Its a strong enough bet that it tells him - hey - I got a hand here.
4. Now he shoves. Okay…think. What does he have. We could assume he has AQ of spades. That makes sense. Defensible. But then I thought okay - no nut flush. If he has AQ of spades, he’s going to call not shove. So I rule out A high flush. So that leave like Aspades K of another suit. Which I thought is what he had. So I beat his top pair. And he has a draw at a flush puts me 65-35.
5. He could have had J10 - for two pair. Could have had AA, QQ, JJ, 10 or 99. All defensible.
6. What could he have that I have beat. In my mind - I read A of spades and K, Q or J or another suit.
7. In light of the fact it was for all my chips….would you call here. In hindsight (which is 20-20) I think I should have slowed down….and realized he is not going to shove on my pot size raise…unless he has a strong hand.
Hah! As an egomaniac, I am flattered you are asking for my advice, especially since I am a losing player in tournaments! (I think I am down like $7 overall over a span of like 100 SNGs accd. to sharkscope)
On the hand where you flop a set, you should bet here almost every time. I agree w/ Rip’s assesement and also, your opponent most likely holds two painted cards or a pocket pair - you want to bet because you want to
a) build a pot in order to price him into future bigger calls and eventually stack him by the river
b) avoid giving straight draws free cards (this is big - very likely that board gave some sort of draw if he didn’t pair a card)
c) take down the pot if he missed completely because you’re not extracting any more value unless you let him catch up to the point of being ahead of you
d) represent a weaker hand than you actually have and expand your range
On the hand where you smoothcall with AK, I really don’t like this play. The standard play here is to raise for a number of reasons. You’re out of position which is going to be a huge disadvantage throughout the hand, it is extremely likely the late position raiser is on a steal, and if he has two random cards, you’re only 65/35 to win based on if you check it down - take it down right there with a decent-sized pot raise and if he shoves, instacall. It’s a nice pot and you don’t want to play your hand after the flop - you’re not going to pair up 2/3 of the time and you have nice fold equity now. You’re putting yourself in a very tough spot by simply calling.
As played, leading the turn looks extremely strong. You probably have opponent drawing dead - you can check here and check river, representing something like an 8 or a small pair and let your opponent hang himself trying to push you off your hand.
On your bust hand, you got coolered. Put his range into pokerstove and see what your equity was, if you’re curious if a call is correct. This is a trickier hand to analyze, and I am pretty incompetent in tournaments, but once again you’re OOP and the pot is pretty big, just take it down with a reraise or hope he shoves and of course instacall. As played, I don’t really see J10 in his range
This advice sounds really results-oriented but it’s not - in tournaments, you want to take down pots uncontested and stay alive, especially out of position when there are antes and substantial blinds. It’s good that you’re thinking so much about these hands, though. That is vital to fast improvement. Good luck.
No I did not…but thats funny.
I actually think he has some Azn_cutie on his avatar. Which is not a bad idea, consciously or sub consciously I think at the lower levels gals are treated different.
Either or … I take back the marriage proposal….lol…although I do really appreciate your comments Azn…how about I buy you a beer sometime.
I owe you one Longclaw…I’m embarrassed enough by my play.
As for your last hand, although it certainly was a cooler deck… it was a situation that might have been avoided. First you slowplayed the monster KK by calling, this is begging for a bad beat. But you got lucky and you had a late raiser…. but then you smooth called the raise! As AZN Cutie correctly says, tournaments are all about survival… here is your chance to communicate to the raiser that you have a monster and to put in a huge raise. Get your money in when you have the edge. With your smooth call, and A on the flop would kill your hand as that is an instafold to any bet, since a huge range of his hands have a Ace. Now a huge reraise preflop will get everything to fold except for AK maybe AQ, all big pairs and maybe some medium pairs. Of that range you are a huge favourite over anything but AA. If you had made the big raise here, your opponent with JJ would have made a huge error to call (to the tune of being an 80-20 dog). So basically you want that call with an underpair. From a tournament survival perspective, this raise allows any good tourney player to get away from this hand (after all JJ is a pretty weak holding (should be played like a middle pair in this spot) to call a huge raise… at best he is a coin toss at worse 80-20 behind) and lets you add 2k+ to your stack without a confrontation. Furthermore becoming aggressive in this way will also make others wary of raising you in the future if you look like you are willing to put their entire stack at risk.
Thanks Greedo..great post and I appreciate the input. Clearly misplayed.
I do want to lay some of the blame on Sklansky - his first - sklansky minute - he discussed trying to max out your hands. Clearly…an all in or reraise of massive proportions was in order.
For the record - I took up Multi tabling….which is pretty tough for me. The last few times I tried to Ming, I failed miserably.
I have to say it went well today - with a positive ROI - probably up 20X my buy in at the lowest stakes.
I’ll keep grinding out a bankroll and hope to move up in stakes when I hit the $500.00 mark.
Thanks all….big win is coming soon I promise.
How many tables do you play when you Ming? And what limits do you play? At low limits it is almost always better to play one table at 4 times the limit than 4 tables at a micro limit. Do you use Poker Tracker game time windows while you Ming?
As for your reasoning above in your final hand… I am not sure what context Sklansky was speaking about… because of course you want to get the maximum out of your good hands… but I am sure he was not saying slow play all of the time. And KK is very vulnerable. So you have to ask yourself, am I prepared to go broke on this hand if he moves all in on a safe looking board. If the answer is yes… you will go broke a lot. The above is a great example. You have KK and the board is T♠ 7♠ J♠ A♦ 8♥. What is the range of hands that he could have gone all in with? And of those hands how many could you beat? Not many… only a total bluff or a semi bluff with the Qs.
BTW - I have commented on a bunch of your old blog entries, be sure to take the time to check them out as there is some good feedback there.
Thanks Greedo - I will go back and take a look and really appreciate the feedback as I find “direct” feedback is so much more valuable than posting etc.
The only point I take issue with is the board “when I called” was Ts 7s Js….so obviously if the A hit - I might of considered folding to a shove.
Yes…agreed - slowplaying the KK was a mistake. However I got heads up with one opponent…which is my objective on that situation.
I agree wholeheartedly that a preflop shove was in order to go 80-20 into the hand….although it would have cost me all my chips had he of called.
Learning. You’re point about the Ming…I sort of disagree. I find the higher stakes are tougher to beat. I Ming 4 tables 1.10$ 45 man SNGS….with a significant return on my investment.
Its my first foray into Multi Tabling and I want to start real small - then dominate - till my bank roll hits a comfortable range to move up to $3.25.
So far the return is about 8 bucks an hour of play…not bad. I am still reading and learning about bubble concepts and sometimes consciously making mistakes and analyzing.
I am working hard to improve and move up - 2 forward - 1 step back.
Not worried if I’ll get there or not - just a matter of taking baby steps.
Bankroll management is still my number one priority and have learned the hard way what happens when you play at higher stakes than your bank roll can endure.
I feel like I am one win away from moving up - i.e. MTT’s as I have come close to final tabling and now with my new found bubble experience - feel like I could grind out a final table.
Getting through that final table is a whole different matter…..
I heard that Sklansky minute, I am pretty sure he was talking about cash games, and what has Sklansky ever done in tournaments anyway? I think he’s considered a solid cash player though, or at least has the roll to play pretty high.
Thanks Azn…good point.
I do know one thing…playing by the book although solid - will not win you the money. Every once in a while you have to think outside the box. I am not defending my play - fancy Play syndrome - for sure - but I am saying that once in a while thinking outside the box could lead to positive EV.
I have the Cloutier Tournament No Limit books and gonna see what his “tight” advice is on KK. Let’s face it KK is not the hardest hand in the world to play.
Again, you have to have a read on your table and players…and my particular read was A. no limper UTG has not had his limp raised.
B. My opponent was LAG and could have played any two cards for a 3x raise.
You have to be carefull taking advice in a situation and then applying it across the board.
Back to the original post analysis of the KK call. I was just using the full board as an example to show that the pre-flop raise would have helped define the hand.
To analize the validity of the decision to call the allin bet with KK and a flop of Ts 7s Js.
Facts: the prelop pot was 3500
You bet 2700 and were raised allin.
The all in bet was the rest of your stack - 9015
So you would be wagering 9015 to win 17915
The pot is laying you odds of 1.98-1 or +198
Which means you have to win 50.5% (1/1.98) of the time or better to make this a correct call.
SO those are the facts. So now we have to put him on a range of hands to see if this call is correct. The only information we have about his hand is that he raised a 1 limper 1000 pot with a 1500 bet. That is a pretty standard steal play, so it really doesnt narrow down his range much. Probably any Big A, any pair, any big suited connector and maybe any two big cards. This is a pretty huge range, which goes to show that a big reraise would have helped define the hand a lot.
Then came over the top of your 2700 flop bet to move all in with a flop of Ts Js 7s. This certainly narrows down his range of Hands. He would probably move in with AA, KK, QQ, JJ, TT, 77, Naked As, two spades, TJ or a total bluff. Of those hands you are a favourite over QQ, naked As, JT (basically 50/50) and a total bluff. So, it would be up to you to decide what chance it is that he holds a winning hand. It would be hard for me to say in that spot that he didn’t already have a made set or a made flush… both of which you are basically 70-30 against.
So I am not saying that this was a good or bad call… just that these are along the lines that you have to think when your tournament is on the line.
Great post Greedo….calling was definitely made too quick.
I agree with you. The range I put him on was FIRST and foremost A Spades….then AK, AQ first and foremost. Then I started to feel that he had J10 and that seem to make the most sense. He would have been an insta shove on that board.
I definitely wasn’t thinking set…which is my failure. In my gut I had a feeling my KK weren’t any good but that my K high flush was. SO I was thinking okay - AJ he shoves, Aspade Q he shoves, J10 he shoves.
I over rated the fact I had hidden my KK hand…and that he had a lower pair.
If I was a better player - I would have observed he was a solid solid player who made good strong moves with top hands. I ussually use Poker Office which has these little icons over each player. For what ever reason I have gotten away from using office.
I guess in part by reading the “Is it cheating” article on this site.
For sure I acted too quick. Lesson one. I didn’t factor in a complete range of hands…just sort of guessed what I wanted him to have. Lesson two. I put my tournament life on the line with less than the nuts…with a CALL no less ….could that be a golden rule I violated…lesson three.
Thanks to all the Poker Sifters who are trying to help me….its only a matter of time before the big win. Maybe tonight….lol.
Thanks again I really do appreciate it the discussion.
Bigbamboom. Sounds like you are keen on learning. I use PT all of the time no matter what… will have to look into what Poker Office is. But whatever it is, it isn’t cheating PERIOD. Use PT at all times.
I have a deal for you. You are keen on bankroll management, so how about I stake you for Stars 20k guarantee (happens each night at 7pm). I will transfer you the $11 dollar entry fee, and you pay me 75% of any winnings. First place is usually around 4k+ so a win here would make you $1000+ with no risk at all. This will give you some experience at a little higer levels with no risk to your bankroll. Let me know if you agree to 75/25 and I will transfer you the cash and wish you good luck.
PT is against the terms of service of many of the big poker sites. Everyone uses it anyway and the sites turn the other way, but technically speaking, it is definitely a gray area if not explicitly banned. There is 0% chance of getting in trouble for using it or HUDs or any of that other stuff, though, and it is generally accepted as fine by the poker community (as well as used by pretty much every serious player), for whatever bizarre reason.
Full Tilt is very explicit in this in its end user license agreement:
4.4 EXTERNAL PLAYER ASSISTANCE PROGRAMS (EPAs).
Full Tilt Poker prohibits external player assistance programs (EPA programs) which are designed to provide an “unfair advantage” to players. Full Tilt Poker defines external to mean computer software (other than the Full Tilt Poker game client provided by Full Tilt Poker), and non-software-based databases or profiles (e.g., web sites and subscription services). Full Tilt Poker defines an “unfair advantage” as a User accessing or compiling information on other players beyond that which the User has personally observed through the User’s own game play.
Pokerstars is fine with Pokertracker, It i on their list of accepted programs.
http://www.pokerstars.com/poker/room/prohibited/ for more info.
They do not let you “datamine” however, which is grabbing hand histories in games which you are not actually playing. They also prohibit sharkscope and the pokerdb. It is really weird reading that ULA from Full Tilt because they allow all three.
I do not see PT as an unfair advantage… because anyone can use it. Thats like saying, some players use a laptop, so it is an unfair advantage for players to use a mouse, as it makes reaction time faster. Newsflash *if you want faster reaction time - go buy a mouse!* Or more reasonably: it is an unfair advantage to read good poker books. If you ever played against a player who has never read a decent book you know what an advantage this really is. Before you sign up, you should have to sign a waiver to say that you have never cracked open Hold em For Advanced players… trouble!
That is just how I see it. But I have been Datamining fulltilt’s 1-2 NL game and currently have almost 4.8 million hands in my hand history (btw that many hands really slows things down) so when I sit at a table I have statistically significant data on almost every player (if I don’t have data I figure them to be a causual/loose/bad player). So, although this is an advantage, anyone can do it (this means you!)… therefore it is not an unfair advantage!
PokerStars Game #15358169080: Tournament #77010174, $10+$1 Hold’em No Limit - Level I (10/20) - 2008/02/17 - 19:05:16 (ET)
Table ‘77010174 292′ 9-max Seat #7 is the button
Seat 1: TX9999 (6690 in chips)
Seat 2: popeta (2740 in chips)
Seat 3: baby57 (2990 in chips)
Seat 4: GFROMPARIS1 (2830 in chips)
Seat 5: smittyu43 (2970 in chips)
Seat 6: bigbamboom (2970 in chips)
Seat 7: $$K@sher$$ (2970 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 8: mritech5 (2830 in chips)
Seat 9: ddsuperii (2860 in chips)
mritech5: posts small blind 10
ddsuperii: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to bigbamboom K♠ K♣
TX9999: raises 80 to 100
popeta: folds
baby57: folds
GFROMPARIS1: calls 100
smittyu43: folds
bigbamboom: raises 500 to 600
$$K@sher$$: folds
mritech5: folds
ddsuperii: folds
TX9999: calls 500
GFROMPARIS1: folds
*** FLOP *** Q♦ K♥ 5♠
TX9999: checks
bigbamboom: bets 400
TX9999: folds
bigbamboom collected 1330 from pot
bigbamboom: doesn’t show hand
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 1330 | Rake 0
Board Q♦ K♥ 5♠
Seat 1: TX9999 folded on the Flop
Seat 2: popeta folded before Flop (didn’t bet)
Seat 3: baby57 folded before Flop (didn’t bet)
Seat 4: GFROMPARIS1 folded before Flop
Seat 5: smittyu43 folded before Flop (didn’t bet)
Seat 6: bigbamboom collected (1330)
Seat 7: $$K@sher$$ (button) folded before Flop (didn’t bet)
Seat 8: mritech5 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 9: ddsuperii (big blind) folded before Flop
What are your thoughts on this hand…should I have bet the set. Azn_cutie looking for some help here….