Pocket Jacks out of position - The Problems Never End
Poker_kat just posted on trouble with pocket jacks in a tournament situation, and they aren’t much better in cash games. Here’s a situation that came up a few weeks ago. I’ve posted the full transcript on the Low Limit Forum for discussion:
I’m dealt JJ one off the button. An extremely fishy player who’s already down two buy-ins open-limps, as he has almost every single hand for the last three orbits. I raise with my pocket jacks, intending to push this hand pretty hard unless the flop is something like AK7 and he comes out swinging for the fences.
Unfortunately, a TAG player behind me immediately puts in a pot-sized raise. Then the fishy player flat-calls both raises. Even fishy players can wake up to monsters, although I think he just likes to call; limp-calling with a monster would be a very weird approach here indeed.
I seriously considered folding jacks here. However, I called with two thoughts in mind. First, the implied odds are definitely good enough to call for set value, especially in position against a fish. It was about $1 to call and I could expect to net about $15 if I hit my set. Second, I want to be in this hand against a bad player, and I have the fourth-nuts pre-flop. While I’m totally willing to let jacks go pre-flop against clearly defined hand ranges, it seems like I was probably ahead here.
The flop was harmless:
8 3 4 with two spades (I don’t hold a spade, not that it would matter terribly much).
The fish instantly moved all-in for about the size of the pot, and after some consideration I folded. I couldn’t believe the TAG would fold on a flop like this after three-betting, and it’s always possible that either of them have a monster or a set.
The fish turned over KT offsuit - an interesting hand to call two pot-sized bets with, and an even more interesting hand to move in with - and the TAG behind me had pocket aces. The fish’s big lead saved me a ton, because if he checked I probably would have moved in myself.
The forum members were a bit confused about my play, and rightly so. What more could I ask for than a ragged undercard flop? What was I scared of? Would I call with QQ instead of JJ? If I was enough of a hand-reader to know the TAG had a big hand, what the hell was I doing calling pre-flop at all?
I can’t say I’m sure this was correctly played. I tread quite lightly with jacks, maybe too much so, even on an undercard flop. Sometimes an all-undercard flop is even worse, because the chance of a set or big draw is increased (think 7h 6h 4d or something like that). Bottom line, I’m glad I folded, but maybe I shouldn’t be in this hand at all?
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I think you made a good fold.. not just because you were behind but because you had the sense to get away from the JJ with the action and the flop texture. Some idiot could have been holding 8-4 (suited of course.. haha)
I also faced JJ again yesterday in a tournament. I was in a Ladies Tournament at the Hard Rock in Tampa.. 40 people entered and we were down to 7.. (top 5 paid).. Stacks were evening out with heavy blinds and random all-ins.. A quiet player makes a raise in middle position. I’m on the button w/ JJ and reraise all-in (for a little more than double the raise). The raiser couldn’t get her chips in fast enough.. She had A-10 off and hit an Ace on the flop. I was out 2 from the money. Grrr!! I’m sure for her that was the best looking hand she’d seen in awhile which is why she raised/called but if I were her my chips would have all gone in at once (and I probably would have still called w/ JJ so either way)
So I officially hate JJ. Of course earlier in the tournament I had KK against QQ on a ragged flop and ended up taking most of the chips of my opponent in a crucial part of the tournament.. so would I be posting about QQ right now if that was me? Probably not.. I’d shake it down to bad timing..
So what is it with JJ? Because the paint makes it look stronger than it really is?