Angle-Shooting and how to get PAID with a big bet at the end
I don’t know if this crosses the line, but I was thinking about this play for a while, tried it, and worked like a charm. Here’s how it goes:I am a pretty big bluffer at the table, so I like to overbet a lot of my made hands to get paid. On the hand I would like to discuss, I flopped quad sixes and smoothcalled bets on the flop and turn, then raised all-in for about the pot on the river. My opponent tanked for about three minutes and I decided to mess with him a little bit.
“Listen man, just fold, I got quads. I would show you but I’m not allowed to.”
Of course, people at the table can’t keep their mouths shut so someone not involved in the hand said, “Hey, it’s heads-up, you can show your hand if you want to.”
“No you can’t, they’ll declare it dead,” I responded, knowing that this was not true. The dealer confirmed that my hand was still live even if I showed it.
Then the guy started pressing to see my hand. “If you really have quads, why won’t you show me then?”
At this point, I acted really nervous and tried to change the subject. I knew the key lay in not giving any sort of rational explanation on why I wouldn’t show my hand. “Listen, I’m trying to be nice, I am just, I am not gonna show my hand ok?”
It looked extremely suspicious at this point and I could just see the gears turning in his head. After another 30 seconds or so, he said, “I call” and everyone gasped as I turned over quads, raked in the pot, and collected my Emmy.
I saw someone do this exact same thing when they were bluffing and I thought about how weird it was that he wouldn’t show his hand. He HAD to be bluffing. I whispered to the guy next to me and he was in total agreement. Then I thought, “Hey, I can use this when I’m not bluffing because everyone at the table knows this guy is bluffing in this spot.” I am not sure if this is unethical, although it is such a powerful little gimmick in my poker toolbelt. What do you guys think?
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Comments
I don’t really see anything wrong with this. The fun and skill of live poker is the partly in the chatter and you used it to your advantage. It might be a little “third-gradish” but most poker acting is pretty retrograde.
You hardly did anything unethical, in fact you told him your hand! I disapprove when someone makes a big re-raise pre-flop and then starts saying “come on, fold. I have aces, I don’t want you sucking out. Just fold.” Baiting someone into calling isn’t that bad. Like Mike Caro says, they WANT to call anyway.
Sounds pretty third-gradish.
I think you can find alot better ways to win money at poker. Especially live, you really don’t want people to be turned off by playing with you. The players who are uncomfortable WILL leave sooner than they would have. I think this is a bad move at a table you’re going to be at for a while. Also, I’m not sure long-term that the move described here is often going to get you a caller who wasn’t going to call anyway, and will sometimes get a folder who was going to call (talking=comfort).
I don’t think you necessarily crossed any ethical line, I hate the concept of ethics in poker since it is a game of deception. You weren’t cheating so mostly I think ethics end there. But as far as me, I would feel like an idiot doing this, and I wouldn’t play with someone who did this (unless I was confident I knew I could exploit it against you) and that’s -EV for you.
The fact that you even ask about it means you aren’t all that comfortable it, and that is a negative long term for your profit and satisfaction.